Theos-Talk Archives (March 2006 Message tt01319)

 Ireland Declares War on France  
 
French President Jacques Chirac is sitting in his
office when his  telephone rings.

"Hallo, Mr. Chirac!" a heavily accented voice  said.
"This is Paddy Down at the Harp Pub in County Clare, Ireland. I am  ringing
 to inform you that we  are officially declaring war on  you!"

 "Well, Paddy," Chirac replied, "This is indeed important news! How big  is
 your army?"

 "Right now," says Paddy, after a  moment?s
 calculation, "there is meself, me Cousin Sean, me next door  neighbour 
 Seamus, and the entire darts team from  the pub. That makes  eight!"
Chirac paused. "I must tell you, Paddy, that I have 100,000 men in my  army
waiting to move on my command."

"Begoora!" says Paddy. "I?ll have  to ring you  back...."

Sure enough, the next day, Paddy calls again.  "Mr.
Chirac, the war is still on. We have managed to get us some  infantry
equipment!"

"And what equipment would that be Paddy?"  Chirac  asks.

"Well, we have two combines, a bulldozer, and
 Murphy?s  farm tractor."

Chirac sighs amused. "I must tell you, Paddy, that  I have  6,000 tanks and
 5,000 armored personnel carriers. Also, I have  increased my  army to 150,000
 since we last spoke."
"Saints preserve us!" says Paddy.  "I?ll have to get  back to you......"

Sure enough, Paddy rings again the  next day. "Mr.  Chirac, the war is still
on! We have managed to get ourselves  airborne! We
 have modified Jackie McLaughlin?s ultra-light with a couple of  shotguns
in the cockpit, and four boys from the Shamrock Bar have joined us  as well!"
Chirac was silent for a minute and then cleared his
throat. "I  must tell  you, Paddy, that I have 100 bombers and 200 fighter
planes. My  military bases are surrounded by laser-guided, surface-to-air
missile sites.  And since we last spoke, I have increased my army to
200,000!" "Begora!" says  Paddy, "I will have  to ring you  back.........."

Sure enough, Paddy  calls again the next day. "Top
of? the mornin?, Mr. Chirac! I am sorry to  inform you that we have  had
to call off the war." "Really? I am sorry to hear that,"  says Chirac.
"Why the sudden  change of heart?" "Well," says Paddy, "we had a long chat
 over a few pints of Guinness, and decided there is no fookin?  way
 we can feed 200,000   prisoners!"



Vincent <vblaz2004@sbcglobal.net> wrote: Cass-

What specific math are you referring to?  Translational errors or 
otherwise?

Vince

--- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, Cass Silva  wrote:
>
> She did the math
> Cass
> 
> Vincent  wrote: M Sufilight-
> 
> Good advice.  No assuming then.  An easy snare to be sure.  And 
all 
> too common when conversations are relegated to mere text, and not 
> conducted face to face where genuine emotions are more visible.
> 
> I'm curious.  How did Blavatsky arrive at the number 64,000?  And 
> how precisely is such a thing relevant, as the same errors occur 
in 
> the translation of any text?
> 
> Most Christians specifically assert that the Bible is inerrant 
only 
> in it's original manuscripts (namely the Old Testament Hebrew and 
> New Testament Greek), and that translations outside of the 
original 
> languages are inherently prone to errors.  There is a small 
minority 
> of Christians who assert that the English 1611 King James Version 
is 
> also infallibly translated, but such isn't a very wide view among 
> common Christians of today.
> 
> And who is Master Morya?  A living teacher or a spirit guide?
> 
> Vince
> 
> --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "M. Sufilight" 
> theosophy@> wrote:
> >
> > Hallo Vince and all,
> > 
> > My views are:
> > 
> > Let us not go around - assuming - what views the other emailer 
has 
> here at 
> > Theos-talk.
> > If you would go back and read some of my earlier emails,
> > I think we will have to agree, that one could assume, the
> > same as you did in the below.
> > I will however encourage you not to assume too much at this 
place.
> > 
> > But as I have said to others.
> > I do care, you know...
> > I will always be there to if possible be of help to you...
> > 
> > Let us all be happy...
> > 
> > The 64.000 mistakes was a quote from Blavatsky. Blavatsky
> > was a founder of the Theosophical Society.
> > Blavatsky was as you know one of the chelas (theosophical 
pupils) 
> of Master 
> > Morya.
> > 
> > A drawing of how Morya (or the creature) sometimes looks like is 
> here.
> > Blavatsky was involved in the drawing, when it took place. 
> > http://www.blavatskyarchives.com/hpbphotos14.htm
> > And this is a - photo - of Damodar Mavalankar, 1884.
> > http://www.blavatskyarchives.com/hpbphotos20.htm
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > from
> > M. Sufilight with peace and love...
> > 
> > 
> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > From: "Vincent" 
> > To: 
> > Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 3:42 AM
> > Subject: Theos-World Re: Hi there, I'm Vince and I am new to the 
> group
> > 
> > 
> > >M Sufilight-
> > >
> > > 64,000 mistakes in the Bible?  That sounds a little bit like
> > > overkill for your stance.  There's only 30,000 verses.  If 
you're
> > > talking about translational inaccuracies, then such is true 
for 
> any
> > > language to language translation, sort of like when you 
translate
> > > english to spanish or vice versa.  You'll have one or two
> > > translational errors per sentence on a simple restaurant menu 
or
> > > government sign.  But who cares?  Maybe you don't speak the 
> original
> > > language.
> > >
> > > Now before you start a blood fued with me, please understand 
> that I
> > > am not one of those fundamentalists who believe that the Bible 
is
> > > infallible.  I've not thrown any boomerangs at you.  If you 
have
> > > difficulty with the fact that I read the Bible, or any other
> > > metaphysical text, then I'll have to leave that on you.  
> Ultimately,
> > > I prefer to rely on direct supernatural experience versus what
> > > someone tells me.
> > >
> > > Vince
> > >
> > > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "M. Sufilight" 
> > > theosophy@> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> Hallo Vincent and all,
> > >>
> > >> My views are:
> > >>
> > >> This might be helpful in understanding it all much better.
> > >>
> > >> The following excerpt from an article by Blavatsky, 1879 
> mentions,
> > > that
> > >> there are according to her knowledge more than 64.000 
mistakes 
> in
> > > the Bible.
> > >>
> > >> "NOT A CHRISTIAN"!
> > >> I have done; adding but one more word of advice to the 
Review. 
> In
> > > the last
> > >> quarter of the nineteenth century, when the latest 
international
> > > revision of
> > >> the Bible-that infallible and revealed Word of God!-reveals 
> 64,000
> > >> mistranslations and other mistakes, it is not the 
Theosophists-a
> > > large
> > >> number of whose members are English patriots and men of 
> learning-
> > > but rather
> > >> the Christians who ought to beware of "wanton aggressiveness"
> > > against people
> > >> of other creeds. Their boomerangs may fly back from some
> > > unexpected parabola
> > >> and hit the throwers.
> > >> http://www.blavatsky.net/blavatsky/arts/NotAChristian.htm
> > >>
> > >> What the Bible tells us about various persons are not quite 
true
> > >> according to the real events of the past.
> > >> Events, which Blavatsky said, that the Seeker after Truth 
might
> > > learn to
> > >> read in the
> > >> Akashic light, (- that is - the non-physical recordings of 
past
> > > events and
> > >> other issues.).
> > >>
> > >> Just some views.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> from
> > >> M. Sufilight with peace and love...
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> ----- Original Message ----- 
> > >> From: "Vincent" 
> > >> To: 
> > >> Sent: Monday, March 20, 2006 8:15 PM
> > >> Subject: Theos-World Re: Hi there, I'm Vince and I am new to 
the
> > > group
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> > Steve-
> > >> >
> > >> > Who specifically are the 'masters' and are they ethical?
> > >> > The 'masters' that I've found in written texts mostly go 
back 
> to
> > > the
> > >> > Bible.  I'm speaking of miracle workers such as Jesus, 
Moses 
> and
> > >> > Elijah, Peter and Paul.  Some of these are reported as 
having
> > > raised
> > >> > the dead or ascending itno heaven themselves.  Metaphysical
> > > masters.
> > >> >
> > >> > But were these masters completely ethical?  The miracles of 
> Moses
> > >> > were mostly of a destructive nature, bringing ten plagues 
on 
> the
> > >> > Egyptians, and perhaps ten more on his own Israelites.  
> Further,
> > > he
> > >> > and his immediate succussor Joshua were propagators of 
> genocide,
> > >> > exterminating six nationalities from the face of the 
earth.  
> And
> > > the
> > >> > very angels of heaven which backed him, according to 
biblical
> > >> > testimony, were also quite violent and genocidal.
> > >> >
> > >> > Likewise Elijah, who reportedly ascended directly into 
heaven,
> > >> > bypassing physical death, also slew people with 
supernatural 
> fire
> > >> > from the sky.  Despite resurrecting a dead boy, according 
to 
> the
> > >> > scriptures.
> > >> >
> > >> > Peter and Paul of the New Testament are also biblically 
> recorded
> > > as
> > >> > each having resurrected the dead, and yet enforced harsh 
> cultural
> > >> > legalisms on women in their day.
> > >> >
> > >> > What precisely is a 'master' and are 'masters' ethical?
> > >> >
> > >> > -
> > >> >
> > >> > It may even be asserted that the gods of ancient mythology 
may
> > >> > actually have been immortal beings that once walked the 
earth
> > > prior
> > >> > to recorded history as we have it today.  But did these
> > >> > ancient 'gods' also practice good ethics?  Or were some of 
> them
> > >> > bloody and violent as well?
> > >> >
> > >> > -
> > >> >
> > >> > Now I suppose that there are different types of mastery 
> available
> > >> > within the human potential, each with their own 
jurisdictional
> > >> > spheres.  One is a master of accounting, another a master at
> > > sales,
> > >> > another a master of corporate management, another a master 
of
> > >> > artistry, literature or dance.  Still others are masters of
> > > ethics
> > >> > but not wisdom, psychic mastery but not physical 
athleticism.
> > >> > Whatever it may be.
> > >> >
> > >> > So again I ask: what precisely is a 'master'?  And a master 
of
> > > what?
> > >> >
> > >> > Vince
> > >> >
> > >> > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, Steven Levey  
> wrote:
> > >> >>
> > >> >> Vince
> > >> >>        When you mention "wholistic" regarding the fact the 
TS
> > >> > includes other works besides HPBs, you raise an interesting
> > > point.
> > >> >>       I was originally involved with the TS years ago, and 
I
> > > felt
> > >> > as if I had found a mother-lode of metaphysical occult
> > > literature.
> > >> > and this is true. Over the years, however, I found my own 
> tastes
> > >> > changing from an open texture rather undisciplined sense of
> > > study to
> > >> > a "way" of my own, and I began to eliminate texts which, to 
> me,
> > >> > where too indirect regarding the Path of individual work. I
> > > wanted
> > >> > to know what I needed to actually do to know Wisdom, which 
> wisdom
> > >> > was really neccesary for my own "awakening", and most
> > > importantly-
> > >> > what are the Masters of Wisdom. I found that some texts were
> > >> > concerned with the fundemental teachings of the ancient 
> wisdom,
> > >> > without concern for the author, just the learning of the
> > > student. I
> > >> > found that many were not and made claims of visions and
> > > knowledge,
> > >> > which seemed to me, to jump ahead of what I could verify as 
> real.
> > >> > So, I kept finding myself going back to the fundemental 
> teachings
> > >> > regarding the neccesary changes I had to make in me, with 
> which I
> > >> > would know
> > >> >>  what is real and what is not. My biggest problem was 
always 
> me
> > >> > and my  lack of patience. I needed to rid myself of the so-
> called
> > >> > normal time sense of people in our time, which prompts us to
> > > quickly
> > >> > and prematurely aquire powers before we understand what 
power
> > > is. I
> > >> > kept finding that some few texts want the student to find 
out
> > > what a
> > >> > human being is, the knowledge of which I thought I had, 
being
> > >> > preumptious and shallow. Which really means, that for a 
> shallow
> > >> > nature to aquire power would be dangerous.
> > >> >>        Therefore, I kept finding myself being attracted 
back 
> to
> > >> > HPB's writings, along with Patanjali, the Dalai Lama, and 
> other
> > >> > insightful Buddhist thinkers like Santideva, who deal in 
> ethical
> > >> > growth along side, but actually preceding, the metaphysical
> > > study,
> > >> > for the sake of psychological balance. Their motive is 
> service as
> > >> > the key to finding out who you are and your capacities, 
while 
> an
> > >> > unbalanced study may still allow for selfishness, and 
misuse 
> of
> > >> > knowledge.
> > >> >>        Well, thats the Path of study for me, but it came 
> about
> > >> > through an open study of pretty much everything.
> > >> >>
> > >> >>   Steve
> > >> >>
> > >> >> Vincent  wrote:
> > >> >>   Steve-
> > >> >>
> > >> >> Actually, my primary intent for recently getting involved 
> with
> > > the
> > >> >> Theosophical Society of Wheaton has mostly to do with 
having 
> a
> > >> > place
> > >> >> wherein I may freely believe what I already do, and learn 
new
> > >> > things
> > >> >> of a metaphysical content as well.
> > >> >>
> > >> >> When I was formerly involved with Christian fundamentalist
> > >> > churches,
> > >> >> I found myself judged and restricted whenever attempting to
> > > bring
> > >> > up
> > >> >> metaphysical concepts in open discussion format. I was told
> > > that I
> > >> >> was not being 'doctrinal', and that my metaphysical 
> experiences
> > >> >> were 'demonic', insofar as they were not strictly aligned 
> with
> > >> >> Christian doctrine.
> > >> >>
> > >> >> However, my initial impression of the Theosophical Society 
is
> > > that
> > >> >> it is accepting of a variety of religious traditions, and 
not
> > >> > solely
> > >> >> specific to HPB's writings. It is more wholistic. Please 
> correct
> > >> >> me if I am wrong on this.
> > >> >>
> > >> >> Vince
> > >> >>
> > >> >> --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, Steven Levey wrote:
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> > Ah Vince, that's a mighty deep rational you have for 
what 
> you
> > >> > do.
> > >> >> Hopefully you will get from us exactly what you aught.
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> > Steve
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> > Vincent wrote:
> > >> >> > Steve-
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> > I appreciate your insight and your suggestion, and I see 
> the
> > >> > value
> > >> >> > to it. It's just that at this specific time in my life, 
my
> > > focus
> > >> >> > must be a little bit different. In other words, I've 
> already
> > >> >> poured
> > >> >> > many thousands of hours into various metaphysical texts 
> over
> > > the
> > >> >> > last twenty years, and have therefore arrived at a very
> > > complex
> > >> >> and
> > >> >> > advanced metaphysical belief system as a result. At this
> > > time, I
> > >> >> am
> > >> >> > undertaking the attempt to write a volume as large as 
> HPB's,
> > > and
> > >> >> > therefore cannot dedicate fully researching a brand new 
> text.
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> > I suggest that there exist the roles of teachers whose
> > > specific
> > >> >> task
> > >> >> > is to dispense information to others, if they do not 
have 
> the
> > >> >> > immediate time and energy to gather it for themselves. 
I'm 
> not
> > >> >> > saying that direct readings of HPB lack value in any way.
> > > That's
> > >> >> > just not where I'm at right now.
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> > Currently, I engage in trance conditioning through 
natural
> > >> >> > physiological disciplines, without the use of chemical
> > >> > modifiers.
> > >> >> > This means that I interact directly with spirit entities,
> > > seeing
> > >> >> > them and hearing them when I enter into trance. And this 
is
> > > the
> > >> >> > level from whence my writings will manifest inspiration. 
I 
> am
> > >> > just
> > >> >> > curious to see what degree of alignment exists between 
> HPB's
> > >> >> > writings and my own belief system at this time, so I'd 
> like to
> > >> >> learn
> > >> >> > more through those gifted teachers and students of HPB.
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> > Vince
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, Steven Levey wrote:
> > >> >> > >
> > >> >> > > Vince
> > >> >> > >
> > >> >> > > I am aware of how daunting the very thickness of these
> > >> >> > texts can appear, but I really think that you are doing
> > > yourself
> > >> > a
> > >> >> > great disservice, by not doing the study yourself, and
> > > expecting
> > >> >> > others to, sort of, hand it to you in some palatable form
> > >> > intended
> > >> >> > just for you. This is a great deal like going to church 
or
> > >> > temple
> > >> >> > and expecting the paid servent on the pulpit to do the 
same
> > >> > thing.
> > >> >> > > Now please, don't take this wrong, but an important 
> aspect
> > >> >> > of the philosophy of becoming a discriminating human 
being 
> and
> > >> >> > student, is, so that what you find for yourself will be
> > >> > something
> > >> >> > you can trust in. "We are all Gods", says the ancient 
> wisdom,
> > >> >> > or "You too can do what I have done" as Jesus says. In 
> other
> > >> >> words,
> > >> >> > we have what we need within us, we just have to flesh it 
> out.
> > >> > That
> > >> >> > is the purpose of theosophical thought, not the 
> memorization
> > > of
> > >> >> > thick texts. But the study of them, and application of 
> what we
> > >> > see
> > >> >> > as true, brings rewards immediately, as the mind wakes 
up 
> to
> > > its
> > >> >> own
> > >> >> > powers of wisdom and discrimination.
> > >> >> > >
> > >> >> > > Steve
> > >> >> > >
> > >> >> > > Vincent wrote:
> > >> >> > > Steve-
> > >> >> > >
> > >> >> > > I'm just trying to understand what I can about 
Theosophy,
> > >> >> insofar
> > >> >> > as
> > >> >> > > it is new to me. HPB's writings are so extensive in 
such
> > > large
> > >> >> > > volumes that I'm honestly a little bit daunted as to 
> where
> > > to
> > >> >> > begin,
> > >> >> > > so I'm likely going to be relying on secondary 
> abridgments
> > > for
> > >> >> > > awhile. In other words, someone's probably going to 
have 
> to
> > >> >> teach
> > >> >> > > it to me in the form of abridged quotes, before I get 
> into
> > >> >> > extensive
> > >> >> > > reading of the core volumes.
> > >> >> > >
> > >> >> > > Christians claim that the Bible contains 'absolute 
> truth',
> > >> > both
> > >> >> > > inerrant and infallible. But this then leaves those 
> portions
> > >> > of
> > >> >> > > universal truth concerning which we lack a firm and 
total
> > >> > grasp.
> > >> >> > > Namely 'occult' truth, or anything which has not been
> > > declared
> > >> >> to
> > >> >> > > be 'absolute truth' by the Christian community. Hence
> > >> > universal
> > >> >> > > truth may potentially be subdivided into categories
> > >> > of 'absolute
> > >> >> > > truth' and 'occult truth'. Of course, I don't believe 
> that
> > > any
> > >> >> of
> > >> >> > > us really has a firm grasp on 'absolute truth' in the 
> first
> > >> >> place,
> > >> >> > > insofar as our minds are mortal, and we commonly have 
> errors
> > >> >> > > somewhere in every belief that we hold, whether small 
or
> > >> > great.
> > >> >> > > Hence so many different biblical interpretations among
> > >> >> Christians.
> > >> >> > >
> > >> >> > > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, Steven Levey wrote:
> > >> >> > > >
> > >> >> > > > Vince-
> > >> >> > > >
> > >> >> > > > Your intution about the reason for the term "Secret" 
in
> > > The
> > >> >> > > Secret Doctrine is somewhat correct, but, it is also a 
> bit
> > > to
> > >> >> > quick
> > >> >> > > a judgement. I'm afraid you are going to have to study 
> the
> > >> >> thing,
> > >> >> > to
> > >> >> > > get a really good idea about the use of her terms. 
> However,
> > > in
> > >> >> > doing
> > >> >> > > so, I found it wise to read HPB in a thorough way to 
> begin
> > > to
> > >> >> > > undestand her motivation. By this I mean, read The Key 
to
> > >> >> > Theosophy,
> > >> >> > > and study The Voice of the Silence, as well, or 
something
> > > like
> > >> >> > that.
> > >> >> > > Or, pick up one of her collected writtings of shorter
> > >> > articles,
> > >> >> or
> > >> >> > > the Panarion. Mostly all of these are available at the
> > > Public
> > >> >> > > Library, but definately on-line or in Theosophy Lodges 
of
> > >> >> > different
> > >> >> > > types.
> > >> >> > > >
> > >> >> > > > Good Searching-Steve
> > >> >> > > >
> > >> >> > > > Vincent Blazina wrote:
> > >> >> > > > Perry:
> > >> >> > > >
> > >> >> > > > Thanks for the welcome. The Jehovah's Witnesses that 
> you
> > >> > refer
> > >> >> > > also seem to have some narrow biblical 
interpretations, 
> much
> > >> >> like
> > >> >> > > Christian fundamentalists. I'm curious about what some 
of
> > > the
> > >> >> > > similarities and differences are between the Bible and 
> the
> > >> >> Secret
> > >> >> > > Doctrine. Why is the Secret Doctrine considered to be
> > > secret?
> > >> >> Does
> > >> >> > > this simply mean that it is occult (meaning hidden) in
> > > nature?
> > >> >> My
> > >> >> > > own biblical interpretations go very deep for me, and 
are
> > >> >> anything
> > >> >> > > but dry, although I view Christian fundamentalists as 
> often
> > >> >> > shallow
> > >> >> > > in their own biblical interpretations much of the time.
> > >> >> > > >
> > >> >> > > > Vince
> > >> >> > > >
> > >> >> > > > plcoles1
> > >> >> > > > wrote:
> > >> >> > > > Hello Vince,
> > >> >> > > > Welcome to theos-talk!
> > >> >> > > > My background was in the Jehovah's Witnesses and so 
as 
> a
> > >> >> result
> > >> >> > > had what amounted to at
> > >> >> > > > least 5 1/2 hours a week of meetings to attend, and 
NO
> > >> >> > questioning
> > >> >> > > what you were being
> > >> >> > > > told.
> > >> >> > > >
> > >> >> > > > The thing I've found with studying theosophy for 
> someone
> > > who
> > >> >> has
> > >> >> > > studied the Bible is
> > >> >> > > > that theosophy and in particular the Secret Doctrine 
> opens
> > >> > up
> > >> >> > many
> > >> >> > > interesting and
> > >> >> > > > profound interpretations of passages in the Bible.
> > >> >> > > >
> > >> >> > > > An interesting article written by H.P Blavatsky is 
`The
> > >> >> Esoteric
> > >> >> > > character of the Gospels'
> > >> >> > > > http://www.theosociety.org/pasadena/hpb-sio/sio-
> eso2.htm
> > >> >> > > > It's a good place to start as the Secret Doctrine 
can 
> be a
> > >> >> > little
> > >> >> > > bit daunting to begin with.

=== message truncated ===

		
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